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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Christian W. Staudinger

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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete‎. Delete arguments in this discussion have both a comfortable numerical majority and a stronger grounding in policy. signed, Rosguill talk 19:43, 27 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Christian W. Staudinger

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Christian W. Staudinger (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – (View log | edits since nomination)
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This article was a rough translation by Andrea014 from the same article on the German Wikipedia. It was successfully deleted from German Wikipedia in 2019 for failing to meet the notability requirements and relying on self published sources. Because there is a lack of reliable secondary sources discussing the artist, we defer to WP:ARTIST for notability requirements, and he doesn't meet them. The article is is promotional. Andrea014 also uploaded high quality versions of the artist's artwork onto Wikimedia commons to replace previous versions posted by the creator of the now deleted German article. Looks like WP:COI.

Because of a lack of coverage in any reliable secondary sources, we defer to WP:ARTIST:

  • The person is regarded as an important figure or is widely cited by peers or successors ☒N
  • The person is known for originating a significant new concept, theory, or technique ☒N
  • The person has created or played a major role in co-creating a significant or well-known work or collective body of work. In addition, such work must have been the primary subject of multiple independent periodical articles or reviews, or of an independent and notable work (for example, a book, film, or television series, but usually not a single episode of a television series) ☒N
  • The person's work (or works) has: (a) become a significant monument, (b) been a substantial part of a significant exhibition, (c) won significant critical attention, or (d) been represented within the permanent collections of several notable galleries or museums. ☒N

Zenomonoz (talk) 23:37, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for my poor english!
This nomination is nothing but an act of revenge. Zenomonoz had insulted me in the deWP, I reported this to the administrators, who yesterday banned him from the deWP infinit.
I find it tragic that the deletion request in the deWP also came from a person who wanted revenge - not on me but on the artist who was persecuted in the GDR and who in real life found out the applicant was a Stasi employee. After telling him this, the deletion request was made. The request came from an IP in Jena and I'm sure I know who that was. If a deletion request here is made purely out of revenge, that seems to me to be a disgrace.
I do not want to say more.--Andrea014 (talk) 06:31, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Stay on topic. See WP:AFDEQ. The deletion nomination is due to notability and citations. German Wikipedia has different guidelines; I was blocked for misattributing a comment to you (which I retracted when I was aware). That is irrelevant here. I took a look at your english articles prior to that, because you linked to the deletion on your userpage. You’re not providing any rationale for keeping the article. Zenomonoz (talk) 07:18, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The conflict with you startet on 1. November! And the reason for blocking you in deWP is different as anybody can see. --Andrea014 (talk) 07:35, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
This is a WP:IDONTLIKETHENOMINATOR argument. I nominated the article because it relies on self published sources and is missing reliable independent/secondary sources. German Wiki came to the same conclusion. Zenomonoz (talk) 08:00, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Do not start the same here as in deWP! I asked for keeping off of my talkpage and you edited again. I do no "assume" bad faith, there is... Everything is to find in deWP. My work in enWP will end with this person. Too much poison in his communication. --Andrea014 (talk) 08:06, 20 November 2023 (UTC) (addition what I forgot --Andrea014 (talk) 08:11, 20 November 2023 (UTC))[reply]
  • As I stop contributing to the enWP: please have a look to what this person does to the articles I contributed. --Andrea014 (talk) 09:06, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    He now is removing whatever he wants. Andrea014 (talk) 04:09, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Saw this at ANI and it caught my interest. I looked through the refs for this article and found major problems. Refs 9, 10, and 14 are images of government documents posted to the subject's website. Refs 15 and 35 are unclear what they're supposed to be supporting. 26, 27, 28, 43, and 44 are lists or database entries with no actual coverage. All of the rest are either links to Staudinger's own site or don't appear to mention him at all. I was reluctant to say "Delete" because I can't shake the feeling that he may be notable and the language barrier is just making it harder to find sources, but in its current state the article fails to demonstrate notability and huge portions of it are either unsourced or functionally so. Squeakachu (talk) 20:07, 21 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete. Also here from AN/I. I found the deleted de.wikipedia article archived at Wayback (and a similar German article at Everybodywiki) and used references cited there to supplement my own search. I agree with the nominator that he does not appear to meet the notability standard for artists. I also find insufficient evidence of notability under WP:GNG.There is interview-based coverage from 2013 and 2014 of his experiences fleeing East Germany and how it is reflected in his art, including a Bulgarian article that was mentioned in the text of the German article. Other coverage is mere mentions, and the majority of the article can only be sourced to his own website, m-lk.de (although there are several statements on that site about things having vanished without trace including not having Wikipedia articles when I did in fact find Wikipedia articles to link). I rewrote the article removing unsourced content (and the largely irrelevant material about his parents' and grandparents' politics) in case it is kept, because some of it was a BLP violation, and to enable focusing on his claims of notability. Yngvadottir (talk) 11:06, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, the subject is a sourced author, filmmaker, painter, sculptor, and performance artist who has shown in many exhibitions and successfully escaped from East Germany. Active in these many areas of expertise and experience, the interviews and the rewrite by Yngvadottir using page sources rounds up to his being more than just an artist. Randy Kryn (talk) 11:41, 22 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Keep, although the artist wants to be deleted as he told me.
This is an article not only about an artist, but also about a contemporary witness to events in GDR and Bulgaria before the fall of the Inner German border, a person having been imprisoned in GDR after failing Republikflucht and tortured in Bulgaria with agreement of GDR. In 2005 he was invited as a contemporary witness by Hildigund Neubert. There was a contemporary witness interview with the historian and journalist Jochen Voit, current director of the Memorial and Education Centre Andreasstraße (here).
His life story was subject of both a report on German television (material about this you will find here, open "Fakt-MDR 2008") and an award-winning book by Kapka Kassabova, which has been published in english and german (Kapka Kassabova: Border: A Journey to the Edge of Europe, ISBN: 9781783782147). That the figure of Felix in this book is the person of Staudinger can be heared in a German audio at Bruno Kreisky Forum here.
Various newspapers in Germany and one in Bulgaria reported on staudinger (you will find copys on his website, see link above).
From Oktober 2014 to Januar 2015 he was part of an exhibition in his former prison and now the Memorial Andreasstraße, see under 03. Oktober 2014.
He published three historical interesting videos on YT: he succeeded in winning Albert Hofmann, a very shy person, for an interview, made a video about the first free elections in Waltershausen/GDR with a scene that makes the election invalid (in germany it is forbidden to film the opening of ballot boxes, but the people and the artist did not know), and made an interview with a person having knowledge about skydiving in GDR.
He was one of about 500 participants in the competition and exhibition for the Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe.
His exhibition about Adolf Hitler took place under police protection.
Andrea014 (talk) 07:30, 23 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Andrea014, please clarify. Does Staudinger want this article deleted? That would surprise me, since this page is still listed in the sidebar of his page about himself on the English version of his website. But if so, it is relevant to this discussion; en.wikipedia has a policy of deleting biographies of marginally notable living people when they request it. Yngvadottir (talk) 02:53, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you for asking. You are right. And no, he doesn't really want the article to be deleted. He was hurt by the deletion request and it was just an initial angry reaction. After the deletion request in the German Wikipedia he wanted to destroy his works and didn't do it after all. Andrea014 (talk) 04:03, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
He was tortured when he was 19. The problem with these extremely traumatized people is that the wounds never really heal. With nineteen he was afraid they would kill him and he experiences an article deletion as being erased. I am sure he will calm down again. Andrea014 (talk) 04:32, 24 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete There is no RS for the biographical information presented in the article. I am not finding evidence of significant coverage, or exhibitions or collections. Fails WP:ARTIST. No reliable sourcing for other criteria for inclusion. --WomenArtistUpdates (talk) 18:15, 25 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Delete I'm not finding reliable sources on this artist. The above commentary about the artist being "a contemporary witness to events," having "published three historical interesting videos on YT (YouTube?)" and "was one of about 500 participants in the competition" do not provide significant coverage on this topic. Elspea756 (talk) 22:49, 26 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
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